live feeding to herps

**REXANO** · Site Admin Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 485

OK, this issue is rather complicated with the dog hanging by legs and rabbit throwing (yes, stupid, immature, idiotic show off), but that is just a sideshow/distraction from a real issue, I have been saying this for a loooooong time, eventually they/AR freaks will call feeding live prey animal abuse/suffering, AR are pushing the threshold of what is acceptable moving the ‘center/norm’ more to the extreme of nothing is acceptable, what was middle ground a year ago is not accepted now.

‘intentionally hurt the animals’, yeah, the idea was to have snake kill/eat it, so I guess all who feed live are now guilty of intentionally hurting the animals since the reason we breed/buy rodents is to have snake kill/eat it?
I might sound extreme now to some non converts, but few weeks/years from now I will have to buy a copyright/trademark/whatever from Rush Limbaugh and tell u ” see I told u so”
Yeah, this particular kid might be a total moron,(likely is, but by giving any credibility to AR regarding live feeding we r on a slippery slope.
Wink

end of rant
Z
==

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_2021596.php

Friday, April 18, 2008
Videotaped snake feeding troubles breeder
Humane Society representative calls video “very disturbing.”
By SONYA SMITH
The Orange County Register
Comments 36| Recommend 14
The arrest of a 19-year-old Anaheim Hills man on six counts of animal cruelty raises the question of what animal cruelty is and what it means.

RELATED STORIES:
• Update on animals harmed in MySpace video

• Man accused of videotaped animal cruelty appears in court

On Thursday, Joseph Anthony Deiss surrendered to authorities after a $10,000 warrant was issued for his arrest on charges of animal cruelty. Those charges are based on a MySpace video, credited to Deiss, showing a man swinging a small dog by its legs and repeatedly throwing a rabbit in the air, only to let it crash to the ground.

“From our perspective there's clear video evidence that the suspect appeared to intentionally harm the animals,” said Dale Bartlett, deputy manager for animal cruelty at the Humane Society, which is based in Washington, D.C.

But, Bartlett said the video's ending of a rabbit being fed to the snake may or may not be considered animal cruelty. Still he called that portion of the video “very disturbing.”

The video shows the man who authorities believe is Deiss putting the rabbit called Ginger in a small cage, telling her she would be more comfortable. He then shifts the rabbit in a larger cage and the camera zooms in on a large snake in the cage. The rabbit sits in the corner as the camera follows the snake as it makes its way to the rabbit and grabs it, squeezing the life out of the small animal.

A voice in the background can be heard saying: "Ginger. Oh, no. There's a snake in there. Ginger. What a bummer. I didn't even realize it."

The video zooms in on the eyes of the rabbit in the clutches of the snake.

“It's one thing to feed an animal to your snake,” Bartlett said. “But, it's another thing to videotape the animal slowly suffering.”

Bartlett suggested that if Deiss is found guilty, he be given jail time, psychological counseling and a court-ordered ban on owning animals in the future.

“Animal cruelty can be one of the earliest and most dramatic indicators that an individual is developing a pattern of seeking power and control by inflicting suffering on others,” according to the Humane Society's website.

The videotaping of the snake-feeding upset Anaheim's Sherman Cunningham, a snake breeder. He said videotaping the feeding is “uncalled for” and said it is just done for shock value.

Cunningham said that most baby snakes will only eat live prey. Still, he said that he can usually adjust the snakes to eating already-dead, frozen and then thawed prey.

“You're not traumatizing the animals – they are not being chased around the cage,” he said.

Cunningham said that using already-dead prey also protects the snakes. He said small mice, for example, can bite and scratch the snakes –injuring the snake's eyes, lungs or body. Cunningham said he's heard of rats, mice, rabbits and suckling pigs being fed to snakes.

“A lot of people do feed live rabbits and other things to their snakes,” Cunningham said. “But as far as the video taping goes, nobody I know does that stuff.”

Contact the writer: 714-704-3793 or sosmith@ocregister.com
_________________
www.REXANO.org

**Eric** · Site Admin Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Pa

What is the reason for the dog hanging by the legs? is itpossible for use to see the video in question.

I don't see live feeding as crule most of the time but some peopletake it to an exstreme. I actually fed one of my Red Eyed Leucistic Monocleds a live mouse the other month going aginat my own rule of never feeding live unless the snake will not accept other methods. Guess what happened the mouse turned and bit the hood of my $2000.00 snake luckly the snake shook it off and I grabbed the mouse with tongs killed it then threw it back in.

I'm not opposed to live feeding cause of the food source suffering what ever it may be mouse, rat, rabbit. Anyways my point was always the damage the food can inflict on my snakes. I'm all about frozen thawed and have seen the food turn on many snakes scaring them badly. I have seen snakes dropped off on me with the tails chewed off and the back chewed up from people leving live prey in the cage with a snake that was not interested.

My rant is done.
_________________
My collection...
2.3 (Trimeresurus albolabris)
1.1 (Bitis gabonica)
1.1 (Naja siamensis)
1.1 (Agkistrodon contortrix phaeogaster)
1.1 Red Eyed Leucistic (Naja kaouthia)
1.1 Leucistic (Naja kaouthia)
1.1 Naja karachiensis
0.1 Bitis arietans
Stop by and check me out...
www.easternpareptilerescue.org
www.myspace.com/eparr_1
www.myspace.com/easternpareptilerescue

**REXANO** · Site Admin Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 485

this is all i found so far
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=6088174
_________________
www.REXANO.org

ZJBDragon · Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Westminster, MD

Does anyone else find it rather ironic that this is all happening and being blown out of proportion in orange county California? Yes, I'm talking about the same California that delivers poorly written movies every month whose focus is on blood, guts, gore, horror, and death. When they're not doing that, they deliver depressing and gloomy outlooks on the future for any number of reasons. Feeding a rabbit or other live animal to a snake really shouldn't surprise these people at all given the crap that they constantly churn out where people are subjected and indoctrinated with this stuff for hours every month.

What happened to the dog is abuse in my opinion, but what happened to the rabbit is not. Yeah, the commentary is clearly disturbed, but the actual act of feeding a live animal to another does not bother me. Remember, as exotic animal owners we commonly attempt to replicate the wild and this is most true of captive herps where elaborate cage-contained eco-systems are commonly established by owners. Providing live food is part of replicating the wild. You can argue about the cage all day long, but at the end of the day you have to eat something else to stay alive. Furthermore, you have to eat a variety of things to stay healthy (ie: if you're an omnivore or carnivore you cannot just eat plants). Yes, it wouldn't bother me to feed a mouse to a lizard, but I would immediately have concerns about the prey causing injury to the lizard. Crickets are just as valid as mice or rabbits or other potential prey animals. It's not pretty but that's nature's way. Again though, the health of the predator animal is paramount in all of this.